SCIENCE vs RELIGION

[Dyani]

It will be curious to see how we've evolved our views on this as we've gotten older.

Which side do you go with the most?
Can they work together?
Can you remember what your views on each subject were when we last talked about this sort of thing, have your opinions changed?
Do you consider yourself religious or spiritual in any way?

I don't think we're going to debate on it like we all used to but.. see what happens!

[Bonnnello]

I can't help but facepalm every time I see a "versus" between science and religion.

I mean seriously, is it really so unbelievable that a God who created the universe may also have created a set of laws that govern it?

Yes, I'm still a scientist. And yes, I'm still a Christian. And no, I still see no contradiction. I think people seriously miss out on a lot of good things if they think you HAVE to choose one and miss out on the other.

[IapetusCas]

I was once told by someone I spoke to that God created everything and Science explains how...he was a christian but also studying for a chemistry degree.


Me personally who has done scientist I think there are times you have the two side by side but there are areas that these two don't play nice however I think as I got older and more open minded which i think for me is a good thing.
I am not a religious person and like to approach things on a more scientific level than on a spiritual or religious point of view, but whether the two just shouldn't walk their own ways in this day and age I am unsure.

[Kasei]

I am with Bonello on this. I think it's awesome that God came up with all the physics that set our universe in motion and keep it spinning. I see no reason why God can't be responsible for the laws of existence we have discovered via science. In my experience the problem tends to arise from people who take the bible incredibly literally and/or out of cultural context. I myself am fascinated with science and the innovations we make in medicine and technology every day--Mars One, anybody???? I so want to be there. But I am also someone who has complete faith that God has got my back in all things. So...*shrug* take my love of science and knowledge as you will, I s'pose.

If it weren't so late I might be tempted to go into more detail as to why I feel this way, but it basically boils down to what Bon already said. Or, to quote a song I once heard, "yeah, there could've been a big bang--but who pulled the trigger?" x)

...also, anyone else getting nostalgia twinges that a "controversial" thread has been posted in the mud? D: Leik woah. It just got all 2008 up in here.

[Dyani]

I was being a ironic twit with the title, thus the capitalisation. *OMG GUYS LETS CHOOSE A SIDE because clearly things can never be various shades of grey, just black and white* kinda deal.

HURR.

I also plan on doing more *controversial* topics as threads. Just to see how our opinions have changed and/or relaxed.


I don't particularly have an opinion on this. I'm agnostic but leaning to the hippy-nature-is-a-goddess kinda thing. Science explains a lot about the world we live in but there's a lot to be said for having faith.

[Saitenyo]

I used to take what I now feel was a fairly naive black and white stance on this topic (I was an Angry Atheist TM).

These days I consider myself an agnostic, and have concluded that I have absolutely no way of knowing what's *really* out there, so trying to argue about it is a fruitless endeavor. While I don't personally practice a religion, I completely respect others' right to (as long as they're not trying to infringe upon the freedoms of others based on their beliefs) and don't think that either side can prove whether they're right or wrong.

Like others have said, I also agree that the two can work in tandem. They really address two completely different questions (science being the "how" and religion being the "why") so they need not necessarily come into conflict with each other as long as people keep an open mind.

[Bonnnello]

Haha, you know things have changed since our last serious debate when both of us totally agree on a point like this.

[Kasei]

Originally Posted by Saitenyo

They really address two completely different questions (science being the "how" and religion being the "why") so they need not necessarily come into conflict with each other.

Thiiiiis. So much this. I like the way you put that, it sums up any long response I might've had to this topic. Well said, I may have to steal that and use it in some future convo. x)

[ClearGreenWater]

And THIS! This is the topic that made me creep back here! The last year or two I've been hanging out on MyLionKing board, and dear-****ing-god is it a younger age group!

Not only are there Angry Atheists, but there are Self-Satisfied Creationist Christians, and I more or less want to bang my head into a wall!

I need grown ups, I am too old for that noisy crap, it all just makes my brain break.



As for the topic, I like both, lol. I actually have been liking religion a bit more lately, but it does not preclude enjoying science.

Back in the day when I was here, I was some hazy brand of Pagan and always kept quiet about it because I wanted intellectual respectability. Thankfully that generi-pagan background has allowed me to enjoy both religion and science, not just exclusive of each other, but inclusive of each other as well. When you feel a spiritual connection to nature, you naturally find it fascinating.

The last year or so though I've been moving more towards specifically Ancient Egyptian revival polytheism, so I've been much more focused on religion and a sea of historical research surrounding that, so at the moment I have to say religion is "winning".

[Sassy]

Oh my god this place still exists. Happy Thanksgiving guys.

Religion and science don't get along at all in my point of view, and I don't say this in a bigoted way at all. Science and religion just fall into two very different categories. First of all, science deals with natural phenomena, such as physics, weather patterns, evolution, etc., while religion looks at supernatural phenomena. Science doesn't touch anything in the realm of ghosts or spirits or gods, and so that is why I shake my head every time someone tries to tell me that science backs up their religion. It doesn't.

Secondly, I would like to mention that from a religious (non-scientific) point of view, atheists and theists alike are in the wrong on a social level when it comes to these debates. I understand that some religions preach evangelism, but I see this day in and day out with atheists as well. We all have different beliefs and sometimes I feel people just want the satisfaction of winning a debate. The point is, someone's religiousness or non-religiousness shouldn't be a determining factor of whether you two should get along. Your own opinions are your own, and no amount of arguing or "debating" over it will likely change their minds. Unless they are using their ideology to control you, what does it solve? No harm no foul.

I myself look at religions that claim absolute knowledge with disdain. Unfortunately, this typically includes Christianity, with which my family and half of America conforms to. The fact is, we don't know and we will never know. No matter how far science stretches, there will always be a little shadow of doubt that could house a god or higher power. And so I prefer to throw aside the pointless debates, take a hit, and contemplate these matters in my own head.

Edit: Apparently what Saitenyo said. Read the posts first, Sassy.

[Saitenyo]

Originally Posted by ClearGreenWater

And THIS! This is the topic that made me creep back here! The last year or two I've been hanging out on MyLionKing board, and dear-****ing-god is it a younger age group!

Not only are there Angry Atheists, but there are Self-Satisfied Creationist Christians, and I more or less want to bang my head into a wall!

I need grown ups, I am too old for that noisy crap, it all just makes my brain break.

Aww, it sounds like Lilymud's ye olden days!

Originally Posted by Bonnnello

Haha, you know things have changed since our last serious debate when both of us totally agree on a point like this.

Wasn't sure if this was directed at me, but yeah. XD I was so immature back when I used to argue all haughtily the time on here. It's embarrassing.

[Blitz Rogue]

I don't think my views have changed since the last thread of this nature, but it's been so long since then and so long since I've last been on lilymud, that I can't be sure.

And, funnily enough, that describes my religious stance as well. I dunno. I just don't subscribe to any particular religion, because all suffer the same logical inconsistencies that I am simply unable to accept without a reasonable justification to do so.

That said, as I think I brought up in the last thread dealing with this topic, it seems most people seem to look at religiousness as a line from theism to atheism, with agnosticism providing the rational middle ground. And that's not entirely accurate. Saitenyo pointed out that religion and science deal with very different questions, and along the same lines, it can be said that atheism and agnosticism are answering differing questions as well.

Atheism answers "What do I believe?", while agnosticism answers "What do I know?"

I am an agnostic atheist. I don't know if a god or gods exist, but I don't believe in any of the ones mankind has concocted up to this point.

[ClearGreenWater]

Originally Posted by Saitenyo

Aww, it sounds like Lilymud's ye olden days!

OMG, believe it or not, it's like 4/5 times worse D: The Angry Atheist is European and very anti-American, and the Self-Satisfied Creationist is this odd combo that can only happen in this country, it gets ugly. Combine that with everyone holding any kind of social theory in total contempt because it isn't science, and the results are just some very obnoxious people/conversations.

Anyway--haha, sorry, this post does nothing to forward the conversation.