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Unread Mar 12th, 2004, 11:23 PM   #1
Leo
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Oh the futility.

HAHAHAHAHAA *continues to laugh in hystarical dipresion hours more*

You wanna see something that'll make your eyes sting! I actually thought I was doing good too! HAHAHAHAA

BTW, DONT LOOK IN HERE KOOKAMUNGA! ITS A DISSAPOINTING ATTEMPT AT YOUR REQUEST, ID HATE TO DISSAPOINT YOU SO.

Boy, I had worked about 5 hours on this, and got only this far, I dont know how you people get your lines so fine and clear, and most of all, solid so you could virtually flood all the lines the same color in a single click. Its starting to realy tick me off, Ive tried every thing I can think of to get things simple enough to have a chance of looking good. But it isnt happening!!!
PS. thats supposed to be cub-Simba BTW, I know it doesnt look much like him, thats cause I forgot the tuft of hair on his head, an honest mistake.

*ugh! Ive posted too many whiny posts, I best go to bed*
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Unread Mar 13th, 2004, 12:56 AM   #2
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Don't be so hard on yourself - that aint half bad, by any means..Thats pretty darn good, as far as I'm concerned. And the lines arent a reflection on you, or your art - you got the structure and whatnot down really good.
The few times I've tried to do lines on the computer really well, I just go back with a smaller brush and eraser and straighten them out - I cant offer much else as far as 'constructiveness'.
Really, lighten up on yourself - you aren't half as bad as you think of yourself (I know, I'm way too hard on myself as well, but getting marginally better.)
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Unread Mar 13th, 2004, 01:48 AM   #3
Snowy
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Because I'm an insomniac.

For the most part, you've got the basics down -- at this point, probably the biggest thing that leapt out at me was the unnatural curve of Mufasa's spine. The next thing that struck me was the faces (the muzzles in particular), which need some shoring up; and I don't mean that just in the on-model sense.

Mostly from the faces, I get the impression that you perhaps don't use any sort of construction system when drawing. While some people are perfectly comfortable without one, there's no harm done in trying them. So, the attachments are mainly as an example of at least how I do a construction skeleton (there are as many different ways to do these things as there are artists, so don't feel obligated to use mine). The only difference between the two images is the opacity of your original drawing beneath the "skeletons": The "50" attachment shows how the construction lines match up with your drawing; the "80" has the original fainter so that the construction lines can be better isolated.

The attachments also show what I meant about the curve of Mufasa's spine (it should curve out, not in). What's more, I changed the positioning of Simba's hind legs so that they don't look quite so static and raised his tail more for the sake of youthful exuberance. Also, I tried to show weight distribution a bit better by dipping the shoulder of his lifted foreleg below the line of his spine. For Mufasa, I think his near rear leg I shifted a bit too far out -- now that I look at it, fleshing it out in that position, it'd probably interfere with Simba's paw.

The faces I didn't address in the redlines, though I probably should have, if only as a reference to show how I build a face up off of those head-circles. Fleshing out of the body didn't seem necessary, as it's fairly self-explanatory, I think, especially since your original matches up quite nicely.

Most of the other things I see are more in the way of refinement issues: Primarily, those little details that get a character on-model.

As for coloring, I wouldn't rely on the flood-fill tool. Little white speckling along the line edges are the bane of the flood-filler's existence (I can see a number of different places in the image where they've left their mark) and are a pain and then some to get rid of. What program are you using? Perhaps there's a better way to achieve the clip-art/cel style effect you're after.
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File Type: jpg Mar11027-80.jpg (285.5 KB, 36 views)
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Unread Mar 13th, 2004, 09:32 AM   #4
Leo
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Thanks much! I dont realy do construction lines cause I work from memory, realy, I see a particular angle or somthing, and draw it later. Yeah, as for the body, well, Mufasa (was actually supposed to be adult Simba) was sitting at a much sharper angle. As for his face? Well, I tottaly screwed it up, his head was supposed to be turned more, thus you see only one eye. I was doing good, but realized that I never had seen that angle before, so I had issues with it, and fell back on memory, so in actuality his muzzle is sitting off to the side of his face, lol.

As for coloring, I had the great Idea to just fill in all the spots with the desired colors, then I'd start a new layer, and paint over it all, never got far with that though. I have Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0, and not a clue as to its true powers. Im trying to find out a way to get my lines dark and solid, and negetive space pure. I saw how it could be done to extract the lines onto another layer, then be able to paint over the entire page, yet only the lines would get darkened. I was hoping for that, but of course, the needed tool, floating layers, is not included in elements. I at least like the huge color variaty I can get.

I wish to learn how to paint on here without needing to scan on a page for reference, but Im having little luck with that.
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Unread Mar 13th, 2004, 06:44 PM   #5
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Ah, adult Simba. Gotcha. I thought he looked a bit more like adult Simba than Mufasa, but my temporal sense was telling me that you don't normally get two different age versions of Simba in one picture unless you're a Disney artist using clipart.

Hmm, the way you describe it, it almost sounds like you mix and match aspects of images you've seen before, even if you're referencing those images from memory. That's...not really a good idea. As others have said in past threads, learning the anatomy of a real lion will help you considerably when it comes to drawing from new angles, etc. Once you understand the underlying structures, you can rotate them pretty much any way you please by referencing past knowledge, not previously seen images. It frees you up to do so much more artistically.

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the Photoshop Elements program. Photoshop proper, yes, but not Elements. Lacking layers makes it more difficult, but not impossible. However, being a layer junky, I can't think of any non-layer way to get a clipart/cel style effect even though I know intuitively that there are ways to do so. Heck, I use the vector program Flash to do my clipart/cel pics -- it's much easier to do there than in Photoshop.
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Unread Mar 14th, 2004, 01:14 AM   #6
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Yeah, I am loading my hard drive with all kinds of pics (my moms starting to gain some worries). But its the same scenario I came across in trying to do a self portrait. No defined lines, meaning, in line art it looks very. . .odd. I mean, look at my avatar! You can see the shapelyness of his face, but take away the contrast and shading, and tinting and toaning, ect. you have a very undefined blob. So for this time (and since its TLK fan art any how) I thought it would be easies to just do what I did. Key phrase being "thought" there. . *sigh*.

ps elements has layers BTW, just not the floating layers tool, which painlessly and gracefully "trims" the lines from the first layer, and sets them all their own, like a cut out string of paper you can paint, with out painting any thing other then those lines. I saw a tutorial for photoshop 5.0, and would do great if I had that version, but I dont, and so I wont. . lol. Im tired right now, but if you want to help me out some Ill be glad to tell you what tools I do have in comparison to the real deal.
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Unread Mar 14th, 2004, 05:30 AM   #7
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Yah, image isn't loading for me for some reason. *shrug* but I can still give you some tips on coloring. Snowy probably covered the whole anatomy thing anyway.

Do you do your inking by hand? Or do you ink digitally? I can give you tips either way . . . .

If you inked by hand, scan in at a HUGE size (300 DPI or +, 100 percent of the size) with black and white or threshold or whatever it's called on your computer. Put it into PS and erase all the jaggies and stuff, so that the lines are smooth. Then copy that layer and paste it onto a new layer. Hide the background layer. and I think this should work in PSE. Select everything that's white with the magic wand with that one big word, you know, the one that starts with a C (I'm not smart, am I?? XP Anyway, I think that's in PSE, I don't remember. I've been using PS7 for a while now.) If it's not there, select everything that's black and go to "select inverse" under the select tab. Then delete. All the white's gone!

I used this technique in the picture I attached (BTW, it's IMPOSSIBLE to attach something you've uploaded to another thread. Stupid thing). Some of it, anyway. I got lazy with the line touch up on some parts, but . . .

And you can color under the lines. There are many tutorials for coloring, linked in Air's thread in the how to forum. . . some even explain linework too. Find one that works for you. (A few tutorials were especially helpful to me, like I figured out how to do most of this stuff I'm explaining from Tigrin's tutorial.)

If you do the inking in photoshop, just keep it on another layer.

Coloring the lines is pretty easy, if you want to do that just select the checkered box next to the lock button. It means lock transparency, and it'll only color what's on the layer. I find it easier to control and change then starting with colored lines. But if you want to do that when you're inking in photoshop, by all means, do. whatever works.

Anyway. I hope that was somewhat helpful, as far as coloring goes.
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Unread Mar 14th, 2004, 11:03 AM   #8
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Thanks Cameron, I do my inking by hand with a .5mm pen *glares st pen*. . too fine tipped for larger lines and such. I never understood the magic wand tool, I recently read what it did, selected all of an entire area within a range of the color that area you click is. All I know is that I read that it wasnt the best tool to use.*shrugs* its worth a shot though. Oh, and trust me, as for the image not loading, well, your not missing out on much.
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Unread Mar 14th, 2004, 01:17 PM   #9
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I dont know if anyone has mentioned this...cause Im too lazy to read. But if your looking for good inking try using micron pens.

EDIT: Or or or or! I always make the pic Im working on 5 times bigger (literally) then what its actually gonna be. Cause after you resize it (after its all done) the line art is all compressed, and it magically turns into fine lines! ! Imagine that!
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Unread Mar 14th, 2004, 01:38 PM   #10
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Yeah, I do that, as well. My avatar (as ugly and beginner-ish as it is) is actually on a 12 x 9 inch (approx. 30 x 21 cm) sheet of paper, though it ends up being about 2 x 1(approx. 6 x 3 cm).
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Unread Mar 14th, 2004, 07:48 PM   #11
Leo
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Im workin on a leo sig, its gonna go accros the bottom of my post box evenly (I hope). I need some suggestions on the wings though, and anything else you figure you can help me on please.
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Unread Mar 18th, 2004, 05:43 AM   #13
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Those are good tutorials.

I would make the nose a bit wider. And possibly longer. And the muzzle should be widened with the nose. It's kinda tall. And maybe make the cheeks a little fuller. Will he have whiskers?
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Unread Mar 18th, 2004, 06:44 AM   #14
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I see a little trouble with the muzzle and the nose. I agree it should be a bit wider. And that line from his nose to his mouth should be alot shorter. I found this pic that might help: http://www.lioncrusher.com/ecard/lion.jpg

Is Leo crouching? His legs are awfulkly short, but I dont see a bend where his elbows should be.

If you have a chance, check out this thread. It has tutorials for fur, feathers and wings of any type! http://www.lilymud.com/showthread.php?t=18884
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Unread Mar 18th, 2004, 04:49 PM   #15
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Well, I think, for the signature pic, that it'd be more interesting if he was shown at a bit more of an angle. It doesn't have to be an extreme difference, just enough to put his back legs off to one side.

Also, when lions crouch, they usually (and this seems like it'd be much less of a strain on their neck) have their shoulders above their head. It's a hard pose, but LOTS and LOTS of reference pics should help. lots, I tell ya. They might have one paw in front of the other, too, but that's just a suggestion to maybe make it more interersting, more asymmetrical.

You might also want to give him a more readable expression, but that's a personal choice.

his mane is a little TLK stylized . . . it looks like human hair sort of. Lion manes tend to grow in the direction the fur is growing anyway, just a lot longer. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of this, just in case.
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